CwL Ep83: Checking in with Shalome Stone

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Today on the podcast you get to meet my amazing friend, Shalome. She’s the founder of Rockstar Birth and has made it through Melbourne’s two years of lockdowns with three kids, her partner and a corporate job.


She’s one of the wisest women I know. A fountain of wisdom! And when she started to feel a bit ‘meh’ about life I knew that this lockdown situation had impacted even the strongest I know.


Listen to us chat it through and the surprising outcome for her at the end.


Connection is so important right now.


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Prefer to read? Access the transcript here

Lisa Corduff:

Hey, it’s Lisa Corduff. Welcome to the podcast where you can expect inspiring, raw, energising, and transformative conversations with people on the path of personal evolution. I’m here to really live my life. And if you are too, these conversations are just for you. I’m really glad you’re here. Enjoy.

Lisa Corduff:

Yeah, let’s just kick this off with you putting both of your middle fingers up at me. Shalome through the screen, when I tried to tell you looked fresh.

Shalome:

That’s pretty much epitomises this year, really, doesn’t it? It’s like, can’t take anything else on, not even a compliment. So I’ll rebuff it by giving you the bird.

Lisa Corduff:

Your hair’s up in a cute little Sandra D ponytail, and it is actually working for you. Anyway. Okay. So everyone, this is my friend Shalome. She sticks her fingers up at me, and she is a wild witch wise woman. Wow. Was that four W’s in a row.

Shalome:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Lisa Corduff:

I’ll claim that as something special because what else can I claim at this stage? And I value her friendship so, so much. And we both live in Melbourne. And something happened… Did I actually tell you this Shalome, or is this just something that I’ve thought in my head. That this year, I’ve literally said out loud to other people, I’m not too sure if I said it to you, that it was when you started to feel, when you started to show signs of depletion, cracking a little bit, not kind of being able to get your vibe on. That I would say to people, I know things have changed here in Melbourne because the strongest I know are cracking. And that was you. Because-

Shalome:

That is an interesting perspective. Both the one you had before, the strong one, that you perceive as having it more or less together, no longer having it together. A lot to unpack their Lisa.

Lisa Corduff:

Well, Shalome, it’s not that I think that you are this strong impenetrable. I think you have an amazing capacity for self-reflection, allowing yourself to sit in mucky stuff, working through very hard things. It’s not about that. It was just more, I think in 2020, there was still this element of moving things ahead. Of the kids, and just being able to find the good parts of it. And I think something happened to all of us down here. And when I saw it happening with you, I was like, yeah, it’s even Shalome. It’s even my friend, Shalome.

Lisa Corduff:

I feel like I lean into your strength a lot, a lot. And I’m so grateful for it. But how are you? Because this morning you sent a message in our Facebook thread, which was just like, all I can bring is the funny memes. That’s all I got. That’s the thing that’s keeping me going right now. So where are you at Shalome? Tell the people, tell me.

Shalome:

Oh darling. So right now, I feel like I should… great word… should be feeling excited. And it’s Christmas and it’s summer, and we’ve had a big couple of years. And we’re kind of out of it. It feels like we’ve made those first tentative baby steps out the other side. And that I should have an energy about the next few weeks and days and months. And that should be upbeat and positive. Because we are, we have been through this thing and it was tough, but we’re at the other side, more or less, few wobbles. And as I said, summer, festive, let’s go. That’s how I should feel. And I know I’m saying should. But I really, really don’t. I feel so full to the brim that… I literally said to you this morning, I can send you funny means right now, but I can’t get my ass the seven kilometres away that you live to actually see you face to face for a hug.

Shalome:

Like, what the fuck is that? I just haven’t got that for anything. It’s not just that one example, but it’s that drive or motivation. I feel really like, meh, whatever. I feel really apathetic. Like I’ve flat lined in a way. And usually I am upbeat and I can bring it and I can always look to the positives, and I can certainly sit in the dark and the mucky, but I’ve always got this hope for the future. And it really, really reminds me of, you know when you’re a new mom, regardless of how many children you’ve got, you’ve got that new baby and, or toddlers. And you’re a few months in and it’s just like, oh my gosh, like I’m at overwhelm. I’m at my limit. If I get a shower today, that’ll be a highlight. I feel like that again.

Shalome:

It’s like, I’m topped up to the top. So when you say, oh, well Christmas is coming, or let’s catch up. I’m like, yeah, I just can’t do that. Because I don’t have any more capacity. And I’m finding that a real challenge because it’s that balance between being in a privileged position or a fortunate position, even of being able to say, but we did go through a hard time and we made it through. We’ve got our health, we’ve got our home, we have our family, we’re okay financially. So we haven’t experienced that kind of catastrophic trauma that some people have through this event as a family unit. And yet, I feel quite traumatised. I feel quite like that newborn mother, that sort of shell shocked, what has just happened, where am I what’s going on? And I feel like I’m in survive rather than thrive right now.

Shalome:

And I don’t like it, because I can’t work it how to get out of it. And I can usually see my way through, but it wouldn’t surprise me if, particularly in Melbourne, and I respect that it’s been different for everybody all over the world. But I feel like in Melbourne we started 2021 thinking, thank fuck, 2020 is over. This is our year now, we’ve done the hard shit. And then it happened again. And we spent of the year in lockdown. And so now I’m kind of like, I don’t know where to put my hope now. I don’t know. It’s like I’ve been knocked so many times, or knocked back, that I’m like, well, maybe that’s it. Maybe the old days are gone. Maybe I’m just flat lined, meh, Shalome.

Shalome:

And I know that’s not true, but I don’t quite where that lift is going to come from. And that’s what I was going to say. I feel like in a couple of years, we’ll look back on this and we’ll see that we all have PTSD. Through some sort of collective lived experience that was very unique to each of us, but we’ve all just been battered around by it emotionally and spiritually. And I just don’t know where the next bit’s going to take me. And more distressingly, I’m not sure I care. And that’s the bit. It’s like I’ve lost the-

Lisa Corduff:

Yeah. It’s so not the Shalome that I’ve known for years and years. And I said, there’s a few things I want to say about what you’ve just shared. I actually just had Amy Taylor Kabbaz, in the Live the Change group, to help us see out the year.

Shalome:

I love, love Amy Taylor Kabbaz.

Lisa Corduff:

She’s a gift to the world, to every single mother. So what she was talking about, and because you can find Shalome at… Is it still rockstar birth mag, or is it just rockstar birth?

Shalome:

It’s rockstarbirth.com, or it’s rockstar birth mag on Instagram.

Lisa Corduff:

On Instagram. Yep. So she was talking about that first 40 days after you have your baby. When really, she said, there’s a lot of evidence now, that how you rest and recuperate after that first 40 days sets you up for the next 40 years of health. What? Yeah. Oops.

Shalome:

Oh-oh.

Lisa Corduff:

Yeah. So she said, she’s making this link between, I mean, she called it post pandemic depletion. Which I was like, hang on a minute, did you just say post pandemic? Because I don’t get the sense that we’re post anything. And I think that’s a Melbourne thing. I think maybe Sydney siders are like, yeah, let that set that. They just had their 2020. Where they’re like, oh, we’ve done it and we’re through it. Thank goodness for that. We don’t have that same level of belief in… Because we had that and then it did not happen.

Lisa Corduff:

What she’s talking about, essentially, is like, it’s been really, really hard. There’s been a huge change and transition. We’re now trying to gear up for normal life, but things don’t feel the same. And we are tired. Like we are body, soul, spirit, mental, everything, freaking weary. And unless we take this time, I mean, we’re heading into this summer break. We could actually use this for good, because it’s going to catch up with us sooner or later. Maybe there’s nothing for us to do now except rest, except give our body what it’s aching for. And so I hear that and it makes total sense. And I’m also like, but I feel like I spend so much of the year stagnant. Like I actually want movement. I want all that. It’s like an empty well, the well run dry.

Shalome:

There’s no momentum. So there’s nothing to catch, to get on the back of, that doesn’t feel like there’s a drive that you can harness or fire. Normally, I’ve got a fire in my belly. And I’m like, I can use that to create more energy. And it’s like, eh. And it’s funny because I’ve looked at it and I’ve gone, am I depressed? Is there a label for how I’m feeling? Maybe. But it’s more just, I just feel flat lined, like neutral. I feel beige, you know? And it’s such a weird place to be. I still have hope that will come out of this. But normally my hope’s like, yeah, we’ll be good by tomorrow. Don’t you worry.

Lisa Corduff:

Yes.

Shalome:

Whereas, the way you’ve just described the difference between perhaps what Sydney experienced through a really tough year, and then Melbourne through a second tough year, it’s a little bit like I feel like I’ve had my heart broken two times in a row. And everybody has had that big heartbreak at some point in their lives.

Shalome:

It’s a kicker, right? And it takes time to heal and to process and to grief.

Lisa Corduff:

And to trust again.

Shalome:

Exactly. And then one day you do trust again. And usually, you have a much better outcome or experience. And you don’t typically have your heart broken massively two times in a row. And that’s what it feels like to me. So I’ve kind of lost that trust in, what’s coming next? And I am a huge believer in the universe. I’m a huge believer in rolling with that flow and seeing the opportunity in things that come and seeing the learnings. And I’m not suggesting everything has to be glitter and rainbows. But I’m a big believer in that, in trust that, in trusting that flow of life. And I’m struggling with that at the minute, because it just feels stagnant, to that word you used earlier.

Shalome:

And I can’t see our way through. Also, to your point earlier about the fact that because we’ve had our hearts broken twice, I’m now like, so do I trust again? When am I going to be ready to get out there and do it again? Because we are supposed to go to Sydney, for example, next week. And it is right before Christmas. And so as I said earlier, there should be that buildup. And I’m still not committed inside of myself that it’s going to happen. My man’s saying to me, “Oh, should we catch up with them? Should we do that?”

Shalome:

And I’m like, “Yeah. Maybe. I don’t know. Is it even going to happen?”

Shalome:

And he’s looking at me going, “Yeah, it is. We’ve booked flights, and we’re…”

Shalome:

And I’m like, “Yeah, well we’ve done that before.”

Shalome:

Because there’s been so many times in the last two years, whether it’s simple things like a kid’s birthday party or catching up with you or weddings, bigger, more elaborate things. And they’ve all just been squashed. That you stop thing that’s going to happen again. And so it’s that sort of, okay, so how do I ready myself to fall in love again? How do I ready myself to trust this life that there is going to be those highs and lows, and mountains and peaks, and joys coming our way again. Because right now it’s just a little bit beige. Don’t tell my man I said that, because he’ll be like, “Did you just go online and tell everyone that our life is just like beige? Is that what you think?”

Shalome:

And I’ll be like, “You’re a bit of a spunk, but mostly. Yeah, it’s quite beige.”

Lisa Corduff:

Well, I mean, I said to you that after seeing my psych and he was describing his parent patience as experiencing emotional collapse. And I was like, tell me more about this phenomenon. But it was unable to make decisions, unable to think clearly about the future, unable to plan. Did I say that before? Oh, forgetting things, like being very forgetful. There’s there’s been very little that’s punctuated the time, the last few years. So that’s why we keep saying, hang on, what year is it? Oh, hang on, did that happen then? Did that happen then?

Lisa Corduff:

Because the normal life things, weddings, holidays, all those other bits and pieces. I very much remembered January, because we went to Tasmania, and then everything else is just a bit like, hang what? When? What, what? Oh yeah, that happened. Yep. Not sure. Was that a 2020 or a 2021 thing?

Lisa Corduff:

But also just this whole idea that it can just be one small little thing that’s just going to just tip us over.

Shalome:

Which comes back to that thing I was saying, sorry to interrupt, about that newborn mother sense. You know that your capacity is full.

Lisa Corduff:

Don’t give me anything more, I can’t take it.

Shalome:

I can’t do it. I’m forgetful. I’m giving my all, I’ve got nothing else to give. Don’t ask anything of me. Don’t ask me to plan. Don’t ask me to commit. Don’t ask me to… And it’s such a bizarre feeling. And it’s like, we’ve had no seasons. I feel like there hasn’t been seasons. Even though I’m sure there has, but there’s been no rhythm. There hasn’t been a cycle. There’s just been, to your point, in lockdown, out of lockdown. Very binary view of life. And I’m not used to that. I’m used to all those rich colours and hues, and all the feelings and emotions that come with that. Again, not just trying to paint it all as a positive, but it’s just been, so meh. That’s my word of the year. Meh, whatever.

Lisa Corduff:

Yeah. So tell me then, if you could be bothered, or after… Look, I’m claiming you’re going to be in Sydney. I’m just going to will that. And you get that break, and you get a sense of, hang on, there is life outside the bubble. What are the things that you usually draw on in a new year, or to help you reset, or to feel the vibes?

Shalome:

Definitely movement. Long, long walks. Getting back into my body. I feel like I’ve had a very surface level relationship with my body for the last couple of years. Because my mind has been so occupied, but occupied with the mundane, right? It’s not like I’ve been having big-

Lisa Corduff:

Oh, it’s so boring.

Shalome:

Oh gosh. Deep and meaningful, reflective journal filling moments. It’s like, who’s going to Kohl’s today? Have we run out of apples? What is the home learning log on? Who gives a shit? It’s like that really, meh. And so it’s being able to get out of my mind. And for me, that’s movement. Being by the ocean. I mean, this sounds like we’re about to go on a date or I’m setting up some sort of weird romantic profile. But it’s, a friend of ours Sam, Sam, I’m going to catch up with her in Sydney because God dammit, I am going to Sydney.

Lisa Corduff:

You’re going. You are going to Sydney.

Shalome:

And she said, let’s get together, we’ll have a long lunch. And I was like, no, we can’t sit down. I need to move. Let’s go for a long walk. Let’s be outside with big open sky. I think even feeling that sense of containment in your home for so long or in your five kilometre radius. I just want to go as far and wide as we can and claim that space with my physical body. So actually walk for terrain in any direction that I want to go, and own that. Such that I can be part of the landscape, the outer landscape, as opposed to the whatever mindlessness stuff was going on in my brain. So I’m very clear that for me, it’s a lot, a lot, a lot of outside time.

Shalome:

But then I’m also, coming back to that point about our kids have also been locked up for two years, and so we’ve been talking about what are we going to do in Sydney? And once I’ve got past my, mm, whatever, I really want them to have a great time. I really want them to feel like they’re on holiday. I don’t even think they remember. They’ve spent two of their seven or eight years in our house. And whilst we, thankfully, all quite like each other, we’ve had a good time, been a lot of UNO. But I really want them to remember this as an actual holiday. So if we’re having ice cream every day, or we’re doing something different every day, or whatever it is. And I want them to feel like mom and dad are relaxed and lighthearted and present. And not in that sort of semi vague, foggy, slightly here, slightly on my phone, slightly asleep kind of perspective, which has been fairly present throughout the last couple of years.

Shalome:

So I’ve got that sense of wanting to be alone and do some… Or rather be outdoors, and do some big thinking stuff. But also, really wanting to be super, super present with them. And them feel like, have that sense that this is a punctuation mark. That we are opening the door to a new season. That this is the difference between 2021 and what preceded it, and the new year and a new beginning. It’s important, I think, that we all have that sense. And so, being really present for them and not falling into that sort of habitual, whatever it is that kind of distracts you in the past couple years. Whether that was scrolling your socials or watching mindless TV, or just whatever it was.

Lisa Corduff:

Whatever we did to get through.

Shalome:

Exactly. Just not to take. So to consciously choose which habits I’m going to take forward. And hang on, you can totally choose to take forward your socials, or your bachelor watching stuff. No judgement here. But it’s to make it conscious. So does this still serve me? Totally served me back then. Great filler, but is it essentially feeding my soul anymore? Maybe, maybe not. And to sort of make some decisions around just some really simple calls about what am I choosing to take forward. Might even, not committing to this yet, make my way over to your house, who knows? 15 minute drive.

Lisa Corduff:

You are coming to my house. But this is what we were saying. And have you noticed this too? Is that so many of us, we’re just like, just now normal life because we didn’t have it, because we were just like, what is for lunch from the bakery? Was our biggest decision each day and our biggest adventure. That suddenly, I mean, I had, the other day, I had my son going to Sovereign Hill, so he had to get to school early. My daughter had her grade one lunch, which she needed $10 for, but she doesn’t like pizza. So I had to make her a special lunch. And then the other one had to wear Christmas themed casual, and gold coin donation. I mean, I was like, that’s one day, I’m done. I’m basically spent by the time I’ve gotten them to school. And then work starts.

Lisa Corduff:

And so yeah, planning a get together with someone who lives couple of kilometres away. Because I’ve been like, oh, Hey, I see you. Oh, do you want to come over after school? Because it just has to happen like that, or else it doesn’t happen. I mean, we spent heaps of weekends, since we’ve been out of lockdown in isolation, waiting for test results, because of all the cases at the kids’ school. Someone’s always got a case close to them. And so, I invited mom and dad up, we were going to be making them a nice lunch, cancelled. What’s the point?

Lisa Corduff:

Well, planning too far in advance seems futile when anything can change. And so yeah, you and I have been messaging back and forth. Yeah, let’s make it to happen. Yep. But now middle of the week’s not great, because of kids stuff on. And then just the normal festive season types of get togethers that you get invited to, but actually, making solid plans. It’s like alluded me.

Shalome:

It’s interesting that what I’ve noticed is that the people that we would see around the time of lockdown, if we’ve got it with people at the park or anything like that, are the people we’re still seeing now. So it’s like, we’ve kept that habit and we’ve stayed within our 5k.

Lisa Corduff:

We have, why are we doing this?

Shalome:

It’s like, we’ve become institutionalised into, or indoctrinated into, what was our norm. And now that’s what feels comfortable. And so it’s like, sorry, you want me to go where?

Shalome:

I think I sent this meme to you, probably, because I send you all my like… I, literally, am so easily amused right now, by the most funny autocorrect, daft memes, I just cracked myself up. Because it’s like I’ve become so shallow in my thinking, that totally tickles my fancy. And there was that meme that I shared with you that someone sent that said, “Last week, a friend cancelled our plans because it…” And I quote, “suddenly got really windy.” And I was like, I get that. That would tip me over. I could be ready to go out, and then I step outside and I go, ooo, too much, too much.

Lisa Corduff:

For real, the wind has actually been quite intense down here. So when you said that, I was like, well that’s fair enough. I mean, we’re seeing Shakespeare in the Park tonight, and if it’s a bit windy, I’m not too sure how I feel anymore because I’m sure there’s something to watch on Netflix.

Shalome:

You said something there in minute ago about, what’s the point. And I think that’s the question I have to answer. So as I approach the end of the year, or look to make this a very clear punctuation mark, it’s about being able to reframe that question with a different tone. To sort of say, so what is the point? What is my point? What is going to be my lighthouse that I’m going to be looking towards in 2022? Because if I choose one, I beacon an outlook, a perspective, then it will appear and I can keep moving towards it. But if I choose what is the point, Lisa? What’s the point of doing… If I stay in this place, then I’ll stay in this place.

Shalome:

So it’s about, if I can change that perspective to go well, yeah. Let’s sit with that Shalome and get reflective. It’ll be hard, because my brain now operates just in like 15 minute short sprints. That’s what home learning does though. Right? It’s like you are interrupted so many times that I can’t have a deep, reflective, strategic think about anything. It’s like, I’ve just got these short sprints. But if I find a short sprint where I can answer that question, I actually think that will be my way out. That will be my door for 2022, when I go, well, what is the point? And I get to choose that, right? I get to reframe it and pretty it up however I like. So that is the question that I need to answer. And I think, probably, all of us, dear listeners, in terms of determining, what is your point? What do you choosing to be your point moving forward, such that you can draw that line between what was? And say, right. What am I moving towards now?

Lisa Corduff:

I 100% wholeheartedly agree. And I think I learned that with grief is, you have to allow space to feel the feels. And I think what Amy was talking about with the 40 days, you have to acknowledge what you’ve gone through and rest, and do what’s required. And then you get to you to choose. And then you get to decide, almost, when it turns from what’s a point? To, hmm, what’s my point? And just a simple change of inflexion means that there’s a whole different vibe. And that’s the thing. I mean, you can stay, we can get addicted, we get habituated into the meh. And I think that’s what we’re struggling with. I think many of us were like, oh, this could go. I could go crazy. I might end up really tired because I’m out there all the time.

Lisa Corduff:

Or this might be really worrying. It might be really anxiety inducing being out there. But it’s the meh-ness, that I think that we’re like, oh, well what’s this all about? Because surely something was on the other side of this. Not just kind of a flat lining, or having to try really hard to get excited about the things that we were looking forward to. And I do think you are right that ultimately, once we’ve honoured the feels, once we’ve had the rest, once we start to allow the juices to flow again, then we have to choose. We have to choose to intentionally move beyond the meh.

Shalome:

Yeah. To start giving a shit again.

Lisa Corduff:

Well, I mean, I’m at the moment just recording the summer series of the podcast, which is going to start the week after this episode drops. And it’s like a reboot and a reactivation. But it’s not like to reactivate into some hyper functioning crazed, like things are… I can’t even talk in the same way as I used to. And I feel like, just with all the hard things, all the hard things that have happened in our lives, Shalome, that there’s going to be some sort of huge benefit to us. Some gift amongst all of this. I just have to keep believing that the people who’ve glided through this pandemic without too much change to their normal way of life. It’s a beautiful thing. I see those people as very bright and shiny right now.

Lisa Corduff:

I almost am like, oh, you’ve never had kids, even although they have had kids. You know that same feeling as you look back and you’re like, oh mate, yeah. I remember. I remember back then when I didn’t experience the kind of depletion or distraction or whatever it is that kids can bring, along with all the good stuff. I feel like there’s going to be something… There is something beyond this. And we’ve just got to ride this out. We’ve got to just allow this to be very fucking weird. And be super kind to ourselves as we move through it because we can’t stay in the meh. We won’t. I just wonder what it is, that it’s going to have forged in us. And in our children.

Shalome:

There’s gold in there. Isn’t it?

Lisa Corduff:

It is gold in there.

Shalome:

And there’s a lot of talk in the newspapers about the long term negative implications that this experience has had for us and our children, in terms of our development as a human species. And also, as social communities and things. But I fully acknowledge what you are saying, which is, I’m sure that’s valid. People have been through a lot of disruption and trauma and things like that. But also there’s gold in those moments, there are things that come out of that hard place that would never have been created if everything had been smooth and easy. So holding space for those diamonds or whatever they are to bubble up to the surface. We read something… we, because you and I are the same now, and I share everything with you and you share with me.

Shalome:

So we read an article last year. I remember. And I can’t think exactly what it said, but it was talking to the point. And this was just when Melbourne had been through a lockdown. And that was one of the things I found really strange about this experience, actually, in Australia. Is I just always thought I was Australian. It was just one big old country. And I found it very disheartening how suddenly we became seven different states. Is there seven states and territories? And suddenly it was like, well, those are our rules and that’s our border, and you can’t cross it. And there are your rules, and that’s you… And I was like, what is going on? We became very divisive. And I remember in this article, it was talking about the fact that Melbourne or Victoria had gone through this particular situation, the rest of the country hadn’t. But that out of that there would come different innovative thinking and a different, fresh perspective for how we saw the world. And that people would have… they’ll be able to come out with different creative aspects that would never have happened if we hadn’t been through that experience, and wouldn’t even happen in the rest of this country.

Shalome:

And I found that fascinating because it was such a… it felt like we were this little cosmos by ourselves operating in a larger country. And I found that whole thing quite surreal. And now I think, in this year, that it’s certainly bled across borders and more people have experienced it. And so as a result of that, it does feel like we’re a little bit more united, although some of those border discussions struck me batshit. But it’s now that thing about, well, how can we come back together? How can we unite again? And what is this awesomeness that we are going to bring as humans, and as Australians, and as parents, and lovers and friends and colleagues, and all of those roles that we play. What is going to bubble up? Because do you feel that we are forever changed by the experience we just had? Or are we going to flick back to what we were before?

Lisa Corduff:

I think people are trying to flick back, and they’re realising they can’t. I feel like this was too enduring in Melbourne to not have left a mark. Because I also understand habits, and our brains and neural pathways, and we created new ones. It’s been so long that we just start to… We will always, our brain, our body will remember what it felt like. And we created new thoughts. We had new thoughts. None of us know what to do with it. None of us know how to move out of it. I think people are shell shocked by what they’re feeling right now. And we need time to repair before the goodness will come through. I think maybe there’s a lot of people who didn’t… Look, everyone had their experience.

Lisa Corduff:

Everyone’s lives were changed here. And the extent of which, there’s a whole spectrum. I don’t know if we’ll come together, amongst it all, to forge something uniquely Melbourne. But without a doubt, the questions that we’ve asked ourselves will change the choices that we make. And I think we’ll see really big, common themes there. Just even around kids’ education, the conversations that will inform decisions around that, where we live, how we live. I don’t think there will be anyone here who doesn’t take for granted the deliciousness of watching carols by candlelight, if there’s people in there this year, my music bowl. Or even just us tonight, just going to the botanical gardens and watching Shakespeare with all the kids. And the deep appreciation that I have for those moments. That changes you.

Shalome:

I love your analogy about the fact that… or your comment rather, about that people are trying to flip back to where we were. And it’s that realisation that you are not the person you were before. We’re not the society we were before. Our community is changed. And that’s not all bad, right? We’ve asked some really important questions. We’ve found some real truths about ourselves and our families. And I think that it’s in the quiet phase now, when people are going through their own motions of realising that you can’t flip back to who you were. And so who are you now, and what is important to you and what are you seeking? Because it also feels like, I haven’t had this experience, but I imagine that if you had an experience where you had a big scare, a near death experience, or a big scare, that you would suddenly reassess what you’re doing with your life, where you’re at, what decisions you’ve made.

Shalome:

And it feels a little bit like that. So when you hear things like talking about children’s education or the giant resignation. Everyone’s looking at their jobs and going, what am I doing here? Or the number of people, I’ve heard, who’ve made the decisions to leave their relationships because they realise that the people that they lived with, when they had to live with them 24 hours, not that great. And so there’s the big waves of ripple effects that are coming out, or will come out. I feel like, out of this quiet period. So it feels like we’re almost in this vortex at the moment where the big things happened, but the new hasn’t started because we haven’t been able yet to acknowledge that the big things happened and we are forever changed, and that’s okay. And that we are now ready for the new. We haven’t been able to open that door yet, but I get the sense that as we do, both individually and then as that comes together as a collective, there is going to be these big ripple effects and these decisions people make.

Shalome:

And we saw that on a scale with last year, particularly, people choosing to move to Queensland. It’s like, I’m out. I want sunshine.

Lisa Corduff:

Sunshine. I drove the kids to school today, and just on the radio, they’re like, and it’s not a good day on the Monash, which is a freeway here in Melbourne. And I just thought, is everyone on that damn freeway just going, what the fuck am I doing? Are we cool with this? Are we going to go back to the long commutes? And I mean, I think, absolutely fundamentally the way people work has changed. I mean, you work in corporate, and that’s changed so much. Those sorts of big changes. But then there’s also just the individual, oh, well now I know what it means to also push myself a bit. Or, now I know what it means to have too much on my plate. Oh, now I know what it means when I’m maxed out. And now I know that I can just be at home if I want to just be at home. And there’s just going to be those little individual. Well, now I know that house plants make me very, very happy.

Shalome:

Bloody hell they do.

Lisa Corduff:

You are a very good house planter person.

Shalome:

Right.

Lisa Corduff:

The greenness.

Shalome:

They were totally my vice in lockdown, but they were also a bit of a saviour because I feel like we all found our edges. And sometimes they felt a bit sharp and a bit ugly. We didn’t necessarily want to be that person when we were under pressure, but we’d never been under pressure like that in an isolating, monotonous space. And suddenly we were forced into it. And so some of the home truths were hard to deal. They were hard to swallow. It was like, oh, is that me? I always thought that I’d be the most divine patient mother if I ever had the pleasure of homeschooling my children. Turns out I’m not.

Lisa Corduff:

Turns out, is it bedtime yet?

Shalome:

That is not my skillset. Homeschooling my children is just not my forte. So to find those little things, house plants in my case a little bit crazy, but it was that was something… And I think it’s that bit, what could I control? So within this much more reduced sphere now, what can I control? What can I welcome in? House plants. What gives me pleasure? And I’m sure everybody has their own example of something that was just their little escape within a small apartment or the gardens of their home. Or it was like, what can be my escape? Maybe it’s reading. Maybe it’s some sort of craft, maybe it’s… whatever it is. But that was something I could control that was just for me, and I could breathe while I did it. And I’m sure we’ve all got something like that. We do. We do, don’t we? It’s not just me.

Lisa Corduff:

Well, mine was really… Because I would start the home learning at 8:00 AM so that we could get as much as we could done, so then I could get some work done. And I would get myself up. I would get myself dressed. I would put my runners on, my active wear. Hello, 2020. The 2020s, I don’t plan on changing. But I would get out, I’d put my earphones in, and I would go and walk and get a coffee every single morning and be back by eight o’clock. And that 15 minutes where I just would listen to music, walk, speak to another human and order a coffee. That was my moment. I don’t know what I would’ve done without that. The simplest act. Safely.

Shalome:

It’s an anchor of each day.

Lisa Corduff:

Yep. And I loved it. No matter even if it was raining, I was out there. Because it felt good. I needed it. And I think that’s the thing is, that became the thing. And that I’m like, there’s so many things that I could help me and do stuff. And I’m still just drawn to that morning coffee.

Shalome:

I wonder if we have a tendency then to overcomplicate. And if that pleasure that you get in the most slow, simple, low key activity, if that can be our moment in the day, do we need all of the stuff and all of the activities and all of the noise. And I wonder if that’s where that sense of overwhelm comes from, because it feels like we’ve gone from zero to a hundred in terms of schools back on, sports are back on, social activities, birthday parties, let’s ramp up for Christmas. And I’m like, whoa, just slow down a bit. Can we just go back to… I just need to go and water my plants, or get my coffee.

Shalome:

It’s too much, too much, too much. And now I’m sort of like, do we have to invite all of that crazy back in?

Lisa Corduff:

We don’t.

Shalome:

How can we be selective? And I’m not saying this in that, why we haven’t caught up for dinner, because you’re not on the naughty list or the outer list. But I think what happens is you come back to, what can I do with ease? So even if it means, I don’t have to get in the car.

Lisa Corduff:

100%, what is easy right now.

Shalome:

With ease. Yeah.

Lisa Corduff:

Yes.

Shalome:

And I think that’s where a lot of decisions are being made, and perhaps why a lot of people are finding it hard to say yes to everything. Because that does not feel easy saying yes, and filling my calendar, whilst it used to bring me what I felt was the joy, doesn’t feel easy right now. And I just need to ease my way into and through this.

Lisa Corduff:

Yeah. I mean, and I think that we are lucky in the way that we talk, or are in contact most days. So there’s that too. And also, but isn’t about how the people who you most want to spend the time with are the people who it’s easy to put off because you can. It’s terrible. Okay.

Shalome:

That’s it. We’re making a date.

Lisa Corduff:

Friday night.

Shalome:

We’ve just guilted ourselves into it.

Lisa Corduff:

And then we’ll be like, no, you come over here, you just come over here. And then you’re like, oh, that means we’ve got to get over there. Oh yeah. Our poor brains. Shalome, I’ve up more of your time. I said this was a half hour thing, and now we’ve just kept talking. And now it’s 2:22 and that’s magical. And it’s a perfect time for us to say goodbye.

Shalome:

Can I just tell you one thing?

Lisa Corduff:

No, of course you can.

Shalome:

I don’t feel so meh anymore.

Lisa Corduff:

Shalome.

Shalome:

I feel quite uplifted and elevated, and a little bit amplified. And that’s probably because I’ve had a human conversation. And that’s where I’m finding my joy right now.

Lisa Corduff:

The connection.

Shalome:

And it doesn’t have to be in person. I do love you and your hugs. But it just shows, we’ve actually talked about something that’s real and raw and vulnerable and honest. Like that’s how I’ve been feeling. And now I’m that little bit lighter and more like, okay, okay. We can do this.

Lisa Corduff:

Well, you also don’t have to hold onto it anymore. You’ve let it in different way. And it’s seen and acknowledged. And now, maybe that’s what it needed.

Shalome:

Thank you for listening.

Lisa Corduff:

I love you so much. And I’m sure that this will be helpful. I mean, I sort of forget, and I end up forgetting, that I’m actually recording a podcast, which is probably, that’s been the best thing about these chats, actually. Just having good conversations. And I look forward to your 2022. And I know that I know who you are. And that’s why I’m doing these conversations too. Just so people can see this is a moment in time, and no one is immune from something or other, or on the other side of it, or amongst it all. And can we just normalise that? So we don’t have to beat ourselves up. We don’t have to expect being super human. We are all so in our humanness right now in a frustrating way, sometimes for people like you and me. But I appreciate you sharing with us today. I know you’ve got a sick kid at home, let’s add that to the mix. And you are going to get out of this state and you’re going to be sharing photos with me. You and Sam will be taking pics and I’ll be all the jelly, but happy for you. It’s time. We’ll make 2020 different, God dammit.

Shalome:

Love your guts, babe.

Lisa Corduff:

Speak to you soon. Bye.

Lisa Corduff:

Hey, if you are enjoying the conversation, then it would mean the world to me if you head over to iTunes and give us a rating and review. It really makes a difference. And it’s my intention to get as many of us involved in real conversations that really change the game as possible. Thanks so much for your help, and I’ll see you in the next episode.

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"I’m here to help you break free from the stories holding you back, and create change that sticks"

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